Tolkien Legendarium Role-Playing Game - The Wish-List Thread for Dreamers!

[Passive Chicken]

You design a Lord of the Rings Role-playing video game. Have you thought about this before? Almost every video game fan who enjoys Tolkien's work has. Why? Because of a success. After decades without anything at all being added to the work, J. R. R. Tolkien's Legendarium has inspired, captivated people, made its readers feel emotion in an unprecedented way, changed the way that they have viewed the world, and lived up to the title Legendarium, for indeed there is nothing about Tolkien's work that is beneath legendary. It is because of this success that for decades people have imagined what it would be like to travel to Rivendell, to scale the Blue Mountains, to fight orcs, resist dragons' fire, observe the fading the elves, bleed alongside the dwarves in the wars against the vile goblins, talk to the Great Eagles, ride with the Rohirrim, and walk the long, lonely, beautiful roads of Middle-earth. Haven't we all had this dream, this same dream? Here is the place to tell of them. If you could be in charge of a role playing video game set in Tolkien's universe, what would it be? Can be as elaborate and planned out or simplistic as you want!

Aye, I have had my own for some time. I cannot call it a Lord of the Rings game because Sauron is long since destroyed (at least until Dagor Dagorath, that is); it is set near the end of the Fourth Age. Gandalf said that though Sauron was destroyed, evil would persist in Middle-earth, just not as strong as Sauron. The idea is far from complete, but we are spit-balling here, so why does it matter? I've just recently read through Fellowship, Two Towers, and Return of the King and have thought on the pages of Tolkien's abandoned sequel to Lord of the Rings and tried to come up with story that is epic, but follows the lore.

STORY

Does anyone remember that old game Gauntlet: Dark Legacies? Fantastic game! It was just a fun, co-op romp through the world, and it was a heck of a lot of fun with four players. Was it a good game, though? No, maybe not. Nevertheless, since I played that game so many years ago, I have wanted to re-capture the great co-op rpg experience. As for my idea for the LoTR game (I know that I said I wouldn't call it that; bear with me), I imagine it as a co-operative experience where players can each choose one of five different origin stories for their characters - Human, House of Gondor; Human, House of Rohan; Dwarf, House of Hegnar; Hobbit, House of Thainlin; and Elven exile - then design them in from there; i.e. facial features and class.

Anyhoo, it is the Fourth Age and the Kingdom of Gondor has grown considerably - the Age of Men has come indeed, as Gandalf foretold. The hill-folk of Dunland are part of Gondor now; the Corsairs, Easternlings and Haradrim are at peace with the Reunited Kingdom and Rohan is the western arm of Gondor. Hobbits and dwarves have been adopted into the society of mankind and are regarded as little different from Man. Above it all are reigning the heirs of Aragorn II Elessar's throne in Minas Tirith, and the current reigning ruler is Yraebryn, Stormlight of the Reunited Kingdom. Unbeknownst to the Peoples of Middle-earth, heirs of King Aragorn Elessar's bloodline are being captured and executed in the Durb-burzum, a malevolent spire taken from the peoples of Nurn, built near to the remains of Orodruin, in Mordor.

The Antagonist is Melduin (name still undecided); he is Master of the keep of Durb-burzum and was raised by the Black Numenorians of Lethurion, an estranged city along the coast of Umbar. While the rest of the world has seemingly forgotten the history and magic of Middle-earth, he is a trained lore master who is studied in the old arts and sorceries, but he is not part or leader of the Cult to Sauron of Morgoth.

The main plot begins when King Yraebryn and the rest of his kindred, all of whom attend his birthday celebration in an old dwarven hold in the Blue Mountains, are ambushed and killed by an organized band of orcs - orcs that have grown cowardly and are near to the brink of extinction. The Antagonist, Melduin, has coerced the last of the orcs and goblins and trolls to serve him and declares war, not on Gondor, but upon all the Peoples of Middle-earth for a mysterious, unknown purpose. The players all have their place in the world, but against the threat of fire from Orodruin, the peoples must struggle to lead a land now kingless and fight the evil of Man that has mustered against them. Here are some "word pictures" that I would like to paint for you, scenes that are important in the game:

Beneath the Shadow of Durb-burzum: There is darkness, and shadow. A wheel rolls through a mud puddle and the camera pans back and up. Men with unshaved bears and long, curly hair - descendants of the House of Elessar, no less - are fettered in chains, being rolled down the black, twisting way through the Land of Shadow. Gulls cry over head, and they raise their eyes and grimace. Stark against the black-gray of the heavens and the ruin of Orodruin stands tall and proud the citadel of knives, Durb-burzum, and all around its feet are the slaves of the Taskmaster, men and women fettered and filthy; dirty, grimy, gritty - miserable. The orcs crack their whips and the prisoners take it, but there is no hope here. Only despair. "End of the line," says one of the shaking, vile orcs, prodding through the bars of the prison carriage. The doors are opened and the prisoners, sons of Aragorn II Elessar, step to the earth and come towards the headsmen's block in the city square, where all others look on. They hold their heads high and proud, the light of kings and of brilliant hope shining in their eyes. He is kicked to his knees, this prisoner, and lowered over the stump. His eyes gaze up to the terrace of the tower, where a dark figure watches. Steel shimmers - the life of a Dunedain flashes before his very eyes in a second - then a splash of blood. His head hits the ground, then we return to the shadowy figure, cloaked ever in black. He turns away and steps inside, paces the room and comes to the second terrace, this one facing west. The land is burning. Carriages are fighting their way down the descent toward the tower. Dozens of them.

The Kinslaying at Dezad-belarum: The city once known as Erebor has a great city sprawling outside of its main gates, down the descent of the Lonely Mountain, like a hand splayed and outstretched this direction and that. Now it is ablaze, and a great battle has engulfed it. Dwarves and Men are pitted against the worst filth of Mordor, those who once served the Lidless Eye and who now serve the endless ire of the Silver Wolf. The battle wages on and on both sides heavy losses have been taken. Upon the rampart stand two of elven-kind, the last of their kind in Middle-earth, both exiles. Arafinwe, Iophlas, cousins long parted. Iophlas, poised with the despair of Melduin's cause, vows against the Peoples of Middle-earth, and they fight. They battle until they are upon the edge of breaking, until their spirit fails, but finally Arafinwe prevails. As if he was stabbing himself through his own heart with the thrust, Arafinwe impales Iophlas through the gut. He recoils, and the battle is over. Despair engulfs Iophlas' heart, and Arafinwe is shocked and simply stares at his once beloved cousin, and the murderous hatred falls from his eyes. He despairs one final time, and bids his cousin farewell before throwing himself off the rampart to his death. Arafinwe stands still as stone, the battle swelling around and beneath him, and weeps for the end of his kind. He is the last.

GAMEPLAY

Honestly, I thoroughly enjoy the gameplay of War in the North and I don't see why it couldn't be implimented into a larger game. Moving is easy, battles are a blast; the only thing that I would seek to change is to make the skills and special powers your characters can use more extensive, as well as a deeper character creation and conversation mechanic. The game is free roaming - as in there are no pathways that you must follow - but there is not as much freedom as you would find in a game like Skyrim or Oblivion. I cannot see this as an open-ended game. If a threat is looming and a city is getting ready to be attacked, it ruins the immersion if you decide to go and take care of a few side quests for five hours. I imagine that there are regions, almost like War in the North, that you can travel to and explore in as much detail as you want, finding caves and dungeons and enemies that are not required of you to discover. There may be times, however, where it would be integral to the plot to force players on to a next point, and penalize them if they refuse. For example, if they decide to take care of some side quests while a city is about to be sieged, when finally they arrive the city is on the verge of being overrun and some side-characters are dead.

Much of the tone for the game has to do with things that have been lost with each age, so it would be great if there was exploration of old cities and ruins of the elves, men, and dwarves, now long forgotten and abandoned. And loot, of course. There will have to be a lot of loot. What do you guys think of War in the North's combat? While I would want to focus a lot of time on making big, beautiful cities and engaging conversations for you to have outside of combat, do you think that fighting like it is found in War in the North could work in a role playing game, or do you think that it might be a little bit too shallow?

Anyways, this is just a little bit about my idea for a role playing game set in Middle-earth. It isn't very good, I know, but there have been worse stories, I am sure. What do all of you think - not just on my idea, but just about the idea of the LoTR rpg in general?

[urgost]

Well, I guess its just my opinion again, but I think you have something very solid here. It is original, and I really don't think that the Tolkien Estate would be angry at a game like this because you really aren't tampering with anything. You are not disturbing events in the Silmarillion so this is a good idea. I thought the idea of the White Council was good too because it was the time period in between The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings and I really think that should be revisited because so many characters are still around at that time, but your vision is truly original. Now, I don't know much of anything about the Fourth Age of Middle-Earth, but the story you have proposed seems intriguing and it would be cool to have brand new characters and also being able to see how Middle-Earth changed during the time of Men. There is still so much that could potentially be added to your story because of the vastness of Middle-Earth, and I really have no clue how you could expand on this while adding story elements based on the race you choose. Ha ha, this is probably why a LOTR RPG of this size and scope has not been done yet my friend. There is just way too much that needs to be covered and explained. With that being said, I LOVE the foundation that you have set for your take on Tolkien's world. You really have a solid, original idea here that would be really cool to see come to life. I wish I was more imaginative to be able to give you some ideas, but my creativeness is terrible
I would love to hear more about this though, but as a word of warning, you probably shouldn't give too much info out regarding your game because some other creative person might want to take elements that you have made and make them their own.
Also, your story board style descriptions were very good too and I am surprised that someone on a forum has this much of a potential game at their disposal. I will really try to imagine something to maybe contribute to your ideas after my exams! Concerning the combat, I really liked what Snowblind did with the combat in War in the North. It was very fun and the skill tree was a good idea too. The only thing I would do would be to make it a little more deep. Maybe some more combos and special abilities to unlock and slightly different combat mechanics. I would like more blocking and then counter attacking in addition to the dodge rolling that the War in the North has already.

[jmak]

Nice Passive Chicken, but like Urgost said you should be more careful when posting ideas on websites on the Internet. That's how a lot of ideas and things get stolen, and I personally know someone who that happened to. Just a word of advice, but great ideas anyways. I would love to play a game like this someday if one with this type of gameplay and story plot ever comes out.

[Survivor]

Nice Passive Chicken, but like Urgost said you should be more careful when posting ideas on websites on the Internet. That's how a lot of ideas and things get stolen, and I personally know someone who that happened to. Just a word of advice, but great ideas anyways. I would love to play a game like this someday if one with this type of gameplay and story plot ever comes out.

If someone would steal this idea and make a good game out of it, isn't that what we all want?

@PassiveChicken
Nice story. I do think you're underestimating the freeroam gameplay though. I don't believe you can easily transfer WitN to a freeroam RPG. Adding bigger areas is not enough. If you play WitN, you'll notice that there are invisible walls everywhere. For example, the Barrow-downs contain a lot of hills but you can't get to these hills. Both sides of all roads/areas in this game have invisible walls.
If you turn this game into a freeroam RPG, you need a whole new engine. You can't just remove the invisible barrier and then the player is able to explore the hills in the Barrow-downs. You need a jump button and that alone changes many things in how the game works. Currently the areas are quite small but we still have loading times. Now imagine if this game had a Mines of Moria level in all it's glory. That would give us very long loading times and a massive FPS drop.

A better way imo to create a LotR open-world RPG would be to take an already existing engine, like the engine Skyrim is using or the CryEngine. But look at the production costs and scale of Skyrim. If the entire world of Skyrim would be Rohan, that would be a decent scale imo. But Rohan is only a very small part of Middle-Earth.

The reason that there hasn't been an open-world LotR RPG yet is because the production costs would be insane. It is simply impossible to create a game that does the books justice, while still having cuttin-edge 3D graphics.

Skyrim is huge but look at how small and empty those cities/settlements really are. The world is huge but as a LotR game, it would've been way too small. Unless it focused on one part of the world of course. An open-world LotR game with just Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, the Black Gate and Minas Morgul would be a possibility.

So I think the best idea for a LotR open-world RPG is to either focus on a small area of Middle-Earth or to make it more of an indie game and use very simple graphics, a topdown view and no voice-overs.

In an open-world LotR RPG, I'd rather see lots of dialogues, well written quests, lots of possibilities (choices for your character), epic fights (retaking Moria, etc.) and replayability (meaingful choices, origins) than good 3D graphics. That's the choice one has to make. You can't really have both. At least not now, maybe in 10-15 years.

[urgost]

@ Survivor, I think what me and jmak meant was that Passive Chicken should have a key role in the creation of the game since it is his idea and he should be compensated for it. We might think it would be cool to see this game, but if he saw his game on the store shelf one day and he did not have any role in making the game or have any credit for it I imagine he would be upset. Anyway, I agree with what you said. There pretty much needs to be new hardware to be able to make such a gigantic game like this. Might take a while, or like you said, the graphics would have to take a serious hit and the voice acting would be limited...

[Linnaiell]

I don't think a game of this size is impossible. Skyrim is actually smaller than oblivion, which was made almost 10 years ago. Why? Because that's the size of skyrim in Tamriel. It's very possible to create a much larger game. Designing the world and placing the objects is not what takes the time, as many games, especially MMO's have proven. Skyrim could be easily, and very quickly expanded to something much larger.

I really like the idea, Passive chicken. I hope one day it can happen, I really do.

[Passive Chicken]

Thank you very much everybody, really. If it weren't impossible, I would persue my goal of making a game set in Tolkien's Universe, but as it is all such things are but day-dreams. Fun day-dreams, though! I would like to put up more information, but if you all advise against it, I won't.

@Survivor - What I mean by free-roam gameplay inside of a game like War in the North was that I enjoy the combat mechanics and such combat mechanics could be ported to a more open engine. I didn't mean that we should use War in the North's engine, since I agree that a jump button changes things substantially. That was my bad; I should have explained myself better. If you took out the invisible walls, however, added a jump button in a patch and changed up the configuration, wouldn't it be free-roaming?

[aron the dwarf]

Dear passive chicken; your introduction has nearly both tears to a dwarfs eyes and that's saying a lot to someone who knows anything about dwarves. This idea of yours is excellent, and the day it is realized will be a beautiful one for all Tolkien fans, but you would do us a greater favor still, if you became a writer!

[Passive Chicken]

Well, I've been thinking a bit on the five origins that players could explore and I have come up with some information as regards the changed Middle-earth that each of them could have significant interaction with.

Human, House of Gondor: When Aragorn II Elessar returned as king to the nation of Gondor and maried Arwen Undomiel, they bore many daughters and a son named Eldarion, who eventually ruled as king over Gondor in place of his father. Since those times when the line of Elendil was all but wiped out, it has flourished. Many have been the seed of Aragorn Elessar and in the Age of Men there has come a level of blessed bliss that was previously unknown in the days of sorrow. The Line of ruling Kings fell eventually to the lady Abaillan and the lord Yraebor, who put an end to the new wars against Rhun and Harad. After many years as king Yraebor was named Geleaflic, that is, faithful, and went to rest with his forefathers. In the birth of her last child, so too Abaillan herself passed, and the kingship came to their eldest, Yraebryn, who has raised you from your childhood onward. The White Tree is grown in the courtyard of the keep and it has flourished, and under the tutelage of your siblings and eldest brother you have become studied in the history of Gondor and are trained in the art of combat. You are familiar with the Lord Iruwine of Rohan and are known to much of the princedom of the Reunited Kingdom of Gondor, some of whom hold the youngest of Elessar's line with highest regard.

Human, House of Rohan: Eorl, the founder of the nation of Rohan, is long since passed, but since those days there have been many blessed days and days of sorrow in his house. Since King Eomor, or Eomor Eadig, the hurts of the land ravaged by Saruman's villainy have been healed and the people have expanded to many cities within the Mark, though Edoras remains still as the greatest jewel in the crown of the Harrowdale valley, save perhaps only for the dwarven hold within the Glittering Caves of the Hornburg. As one of the Riders of the Mark, your spear-arm has been tested and proven true, and your rallying cry heard through the Harrowdale. Your line is one of sturdiness and strength and your mastery of horses and the plains and the rocky places is invaluable. You have known the land for all the days of your life and it is as one with you.

Dwarf, House of Hegnar: The dwarven hold of Erebor, the deep city within the mountain whose entryway gates lie atop the highest workings of the city of Dezad-belarum, is held by the house of Hegnar, and you are cousin to the heir of the throne, Lefi. Your people do not remember much of their history but are proud of that which they do and take pride in their craftsmanship. Of the few that remain, your people are fiercely oppressive against the foul goblins that lurk in the deep places of the world. You are able to craft weapons and armor. Additionally, you are a champion of Erebor and bear the Horn of the Glowering Hall, a dwarf-make weapon that has been passed down for many a century. You know the mines and tunnels of the dwarves and know your people; more importantly, your people know you. EDIT: It was written that a descendant of Durin would rise in the Fourth Age named Durin the Last and would lead the dwarves back to Khazad-dum where they would live until at last the dwarves failed and their people were ended. It would be interesting if your dwarven character was to be this Durin the Last.

Elf, of the Forgotten House: After the destruction of the One Ring and the ending of the Third Age, the elves traveled by boat back from whence they came, to the Undying Lands. Lady Galadriel had merited by her actions a rebuke, and it was not until she refused the power of the One Ring that she was redeemed and permitted to diminish into the West. There were one or two among the Fair Folk who were ensnared by things thought fair, and these still remain. You are of the Last, singers of Taluminiel's Lay and one of the greatest tragedies. You have seen the passing of the Age, the fading of the world. All light is as gray, and your kindred are gone. The old, magical things of the primeval Middle-earth are long since passed and it is your great sorrow to walk the lands alone. Because of elves naturally magical abilities, you are able to resist greater darkness and are fleet-footed. You can deal great damage against creatures of shadow and are familiar with many of the olden things, capable too of reading ancient texts and communicating with the subtle things of the world.

Hobbit, House of Thainlin: The Scouring of the Shire and the death of Saruman the White marked the end of the days of fighting in the Shire, it having been only the second of two battles ever held there. Though not having come from lines of great kings of nobles, your family has passed down from generation to generation the Red Book of Westmarch, a book written by one Frodo Baggins and another Hobbit named Bilbo Baggins. It is mostly filled with old songs and poems and what your family has always been sure to call "rubbish" at one occassion or another, but it carries a bit of the history of Middle-earth inside of it, even if it is just myths from the old world. As a Hobbit, you have a love of the smoking of pipe weed and the simple things in life, yet somewhere down the line it is rumored that one of your old mammies (it is rumored your great, great grandmother Sylvia...) settled down with one of the Big Folk, but nothing is certain except old stories. Your heart is, as many Hobbits share, strong and bold. From the old stories you have learned bits and pieces of truths of the old times and can compose poems and songs when there aren't terribly pressing matters at hand. Through your line there has been passed a mighty sword (or perhaps a dagger, as the Big Folk would call it) engraved with ancient script, and finally it has come down to you.

A Brief Guide to Characters:

High King Yraebryn: Born in the eleventh year of King Yraebor's rule, Yraebryn grew strong and wise in the wisdom of the archives of Gondor and the men of his father's court. He was the eldest of his many brothers and sisters, including Veoddyn, Veodreth, Veothlin, Orathor, Gwollin, Yaowiel, and Misien, and Veoddyn II. He was twenty and one when his younger brother Veoddyn was killed on the field by Men of Harad in the War of the Eastmarch, and for the whole three years of the conflict he himself served as Marshall. When the war was settled by his father, Yraebryn saw a new brother born to replace the one who died in Veoddyn II. He was twenty-five when Yraebor was laid to rest in the Hall of the Kings, and twenty-six when his mother died in childbirth. He took his youngest sister and raised her, ascending to the throne of Gondor and the Reunited Kingdom. He is humble, caring and wise, but also a lord of war in battle and sometimes lacks foresight.

Prince Faradreth: The ruling prince of the Princedom of Ithilien, Faradreth comes from the ancient line of the Stewards of Gondor and being descendant of the Lord Faramir and his wife Eowyn, lady of Rohan. Faradreth does not seek power and leads as best he can, ever loyal to the friendship between the lines of Stewards and the line of the Kings of Gondor.

Lord Iruwine: From the House of Eorl is Lord Iruwine, king of Rohan under the High King of Gondor and lord of the golden mead hall of Meduseld. Iruwine is fifty and one during the Breaking of the Line and has dealt in his time with the sparse orcs of the hills and the wildmen ensnared by 'strange sorcery' that have broken off from the alligned Rohan and Dunland. He is hearty and still capable of fighting on horseback. He has renewed faith with the House of Gondor and in the early years of King Yraebryn's reign was a close advisor to him. Now he sits on his throne and ponders, for the days of his house are coming to an end and there is a shadow that has fallen over his heart. It is said that he fears a doom that he sees in his dreams, and he fears that it comes soon, inescapable.

Nasur, King Under the Mountain: After the settling of the dwarves under Gimli son of Gloin at the end of the Third Age there came a newly forged friendship between Men and dwarves. Nasur's kingdom is part of the prosperity that came from said friendship, for just as the dwarves helped rebuild the damages of the kingdom of Men, so too with time did Men come to repair the places of the dwarves. Nasur rules not only the Lonely Mountain, but also the city built upon the base of his mountain, Dezad-belarum. The years of Nasur's life number over ten tens, that is, one hundred, and the societies of the Men of Dezad-belarum and Erabor have come together to such an extent that he himself believes dwarves to be short Men. Long has he encouraged his fellow dwarves to go and visit the great places of stone - Minas Tirith and the near-Man kingdom of the Glittering Caves - and many dwarves have followed his word. He is wise as he is strong, if but a bit over-confident, and his kinsmen treat his word as law.

[Linnaiell]

Wow, you are putting lots of effort into this. I really want to read that, alas, I am busy at the current time, so I shall read it later and edit this post with my thoughts!